Link to Phelps YDNA Project Home                                               The potential common ancestry of the Tyrrell Co, NC and Maryland Walter Phelps lines

 

PAGE IS BEING REVISED, CHECK BACK SOON

 

 

 

 

 

This page will present ydna and genealogical information to study the potential of a common ancestor between these two major Phelps lines.

 

Contact the coordinator for this group, Cathy,  glroberts AT cox.net for Tyrrell Co ancestry questions.

 

NEW 5/2010:  Your administrator can view the genetic distances and TMRCA of any tested Phelps to any other.   When the men of the "Walter Phelps" line  ( a  very general description of 5 tested men) with 67 markers is compared to the men of Tyrrell Co, NC with 67 tested markers, there is around a  35% probability of a common ancestor WITHIN 26 generations.   The generations and probabilities vary.

 

 

Go back to the Tyrrell Co, NC Phelps lines

Go back to the Maryland Phelps lines

 

 

 

YDNA Tables

 

YDNA Analysis

 

 

 

                                                                                                                             

YDNA Tables -   revised 3/29//2010

 

BLUE = Phelps lines related and likely related to Walter Phelps, b.c. 1680

NO color = Tyrrell Co. NC Phelps possible descended from Cuthbert Phelps of Maryland

FTDNA's comment:  "It is obvious from our observation of 10's of 1000's of samples that some markers change or mutate at a faster rate than others. Therefore not all markers should be treated the same for evaluation purposes. The markers in red  below have shown a faster mutation rate then the average, and therefore these markers are very helpful at splitting lineages into sub sets, or branches, within your family tree."  FTDNA also says that when a red fast moving marker mutation alone implies a wrong branch, strong consideration or preference should be given to proven paper trails..   Of importance to these lines, they also add that where there are no merging paper trails but fast moving markers of tested men do match, it may be deduced that the matching men may be from the same branch. .  

 

FTDNA Configuration - DNA Results Comparison
ID D
Y
S
3
9
3
 		 D
Y
S
3
9
0
 		 D
Y
S
1
9
/
3
9
4
 		 D
Y
S
3
9
1
 		 D
Y
S
3
8
5
a
 		 D
Y
S
3
8
5
b
 		 D
Y
S
4
2
6
 		 D
Y
S
3
8
8
 		 D
Y
S
4
3
9
 		 D
Y
S
3
8
9
-
1
 		 D
Y
S
3
9
2
 		 D
Y
S
3
8
9
-
2
 		 D
Y
S
4
5
8
 		 D
Y
S
4
5
9
a
 		 D
Y
S
4
5
9
b
 		 D
Y
S
4
5
5
 		 D
Y
S
4
5
4
 		 D
Y
S
4
4
7
 		 D
Y
S
4
3
7
 		 D
Y
S
4
4
8
 		 D
Y
S
4
4
9
 		 D
Y
S
4
6
4
a
 		 D
Y
S
4
6
4
b
 		 D
Y
S
4
6
4
c
 		 D
Y
S
4
6
4
d
 		 D
Y
S
4
6
4
e
 		 D
Y
S
4
6
4
f
 		 D
Y
S
4
6
4
g
 		 D
Y
S
4
6
0
 		 G
A
T
A
H
4
 		 Y
C
A
I
I
a
 		 Y
C
A
I
I
b
 		 D
Y
S
4
5
6
 		 D
Y
S
6
0
7
 		 D
Y
S
5
7
6
 		 D
Y
S
5
7
0
 		 C
D
Y
a
 		 C
D
Y
b
 		 D
Y
S
4
4
2
 		 D
Y
S
4
3
8
 		 D
Y
S
5
3
1
 		 D
Y
S
5
7
8
 		 D
Y
S
3
9
5
S
1
a
 		 D
Y
S
3
9
5
S
1
b
 		 D
Y
S
5
9
0
 		 D
Y
S
5
3
7
 		 D
Y
S
6
4
1
 		 D
Y
S
4
7
2
 		 D
Y
S
4
0
6
S
1
 		 D
Y
S
5
1
1
 		 D
Y
S
4
2
5
 		 D
Y
S
4
1
3
a
 		 D
Y
S
4
1
3
b
 		 D
Y
S
5
5
7
 		 D
Y
S
5
9
4
 		 D
Y
S
4
3
6
 		 D
Y
S
4
9
0
 		 D
Y
S
5
3
4
 		 D
Y
S
4
5
0
 		 D
Y
S
4
4
4
 		 D
Y
S
4
8
1
 		 D
Y
S
5
2
0
 		 D
Y
S
4
4
6
 		 D
Y
S
6
1
7
 		 D
Y
S
5
6
8
 		 D
Y
S
4
8
7
 		 D
Y
S
5
7
2
 		 D
Y
S
6
4
0
 		 D
Y
S
4
9
2
 		 D
Y
S
5
6
5
 
modal 13 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 14 13 30 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 16 17 17       11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 40 40 11 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 17 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 19 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12
172268  (John H. Phelps born in 1802 NC. son, Melville Phel) R1b1b2 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 14 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 29 15 15 17 17       11 10 19 23 15 15 18 17 36 38 11 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 17 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 21 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12
N49716 (Lemuel Phelps b. 02/15/1822 Wood Co, VA (now WV)) R1b1b2 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 14 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 29 15 15 17 17       11 10 19 23 15 15 18 18 37 38 11 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 17 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 21 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12
170252  (Seth Phelps, b. bef 1755, d. 1823 Tyrrell Co. NC) R1b1b2a1b5 13 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 15 13 31 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 16 17 17       11 11 19 23 16 15 19 17 39 40 11 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 17 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 19 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12
77645  (Asa Phelps, b 1810, Franklin Co., NC) R1b1b2 13 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 14 13 30 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 16 17 17       11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 40 40 11 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 17 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 19 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12
100136 (Micajah Phelps, 1805-1879) R1b1b2a1b5 13 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 14 13 30 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 16 17 17       11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 40 40 11 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 17 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 19 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12
157512 (Jordan H. Phelps, B. abt. 1802, Washington County,) R1b1b2 13 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 14 13 30 16 9 10 11 11 26 15 19 29 15 16 17 17       11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 40 40 11 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 17 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 19 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12
Distance from reference: Zero One Two Three+

 

 

 

           

 

YDNA ANALYSIS  revised 5/28/2010

Below is a table comparing every member of this line to every other line to show the genetic distances.  Note the number of tested markers in the white diagonals and then click on the blue FTDNA link for further information about the displayed distance number.

 

 

BLUE = Maryland lines related to Walter Phelps, b.c. 1680

NO COLOR = Tyrrell Co. NC Phelps being researched as descended from Cuthbert Phelps of Maryland

 

These two groups of men - all with 67 markers tested - appear to have a common ancestor in the distant past, perhaps as far back as  the beginning of surnames  (approx 1060 AD +) ears (assuming 25 years per generation).  FTDNA does not put great value in projecting that far back.  However potential paper trail connections are being researched.  See "A working theory for the heritage of the Tyrrell Phelps families" at the Tyrrell Phelps page  http://www.phelpsdna.com/Lineages/Tyrrell/lineage.htm     Also, new extended testing is being studied (co-ordinated by Cathy Roberts) which may be able to confirm a distant link and origin of these two groups.  Members of the groups will be informed and findings posted here. 

 

One curious ydna test, kit N49716, seems to be a "middle man" in that his genetic distance is not greatly different from either group -his genetic difference is not as large as the genetic distance with one group to the other. 

 

 

The analyses presented here uses a tool provided by Dean McGee which simulates the FTDNATip report but may be slightly less precise. Data in these tables is similar to what can be seen with your YDNA matches at your FTDNA logon. 

 

 

Genetic Distance
ID m
o
d
a
l
 		 1
7
2
2
6
8


 		 N
4
9
7
1
6

 		 1
7
0
2
5
2

 		 7
7
6
4
5

 		 1
0
0
1
3
6

 		 1
5
7
5
1
2

 
modal 67 15 15 3 0 0 2
172268  (John H. Phelps born in 1802 NC. son, Melville Phel) R1b1b2 15 67 4 16 15 15 15
N49716 (Lemuel Phelps b. 02/15/1822 Wood Co, VA (now WV)) R1b1b2 15 4 67 16 15 15 17
170252  (Seth Phelps, b. bef 1755, d. 1823 Tyrrell Co. NC) R1b1b2a1b5 3 16 16 67 3 3 5
77645  (Asa Phelps, b 1810, Franklin Co., NC) R1b1b2 0 15 15 3 67 0 2
100136 (Micajah Phelps, 1805-1879) R1b1b2a1b5 0 15 15 3 0 67 2
157512 (Jordan H. Phelps, B. abt. 1802, Washington County,) R1b1b2 2 15 17 5 2 2 67
Related Probably Related Possibly Related
FTDNA's Interpreting Genetic Distance for 12 Markers
FTDNA's Interpreting Genetic Distance for 25 Markers
FTDNA's Interpreting Genetic Distance for 37 Markers
- Hybrid mutation model is used
- Values on the diagonal indicate number of markers tested

 

Below is a table comparing every member of this line to every other line showing the generations within which they might share a Most Recent Common Ancestor at  90% probability.  Each kit should log in to ftdna and view the matching probabilities with the other kits.  NOTE that while you do the ydna match at ftdna take advantage of the option to enter in the known number of generations you know there is no common ancestor... the results are then more precise.

 

BLUE = Maryland lines possibly related to Walter Phelps, b.c. 1680

NO COLOR = Tyrrell Co. NC Phelps being researched as descended from Cuthbert Phelps of Maryland

 

Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (Generations)
ID m
o
d
a
l
 		 1
7
2
2
6
8


 		 N
4
9
7
1
6

 		 1
7
0
2
5
2

 		 7
7
6
4
5

 		 1
0
0
1
3
6

 		 1
5
7
5
1
2

 
modal 67 23 25 8 2 2 6
172268  (John H. Phelps born in 1802 NC. son, Melville Phel) R1b1b2 23 67 10 28 23 23 23
N49716 (Lemuel Phelps b. 02/15/1822 Wood Co, VA (now WV)) R1b1b2 25 10 67 30 25 25 30
170252  (Seth Phelps, b. bef 1755, d. 1823 Tyrrell Co. NC) R1b1b2a1b5 8 28 30 67 8 8 12
77645  (Asa Phelps, b 1810, Franklin Co., NC) R1b1b2 2 23 25 8 67 2 6
100136 (Micajah Phelps, 1805-1879) R1b1b2a1b5 2 23 25 8 2 67 6
157512 (Jordan H. Phelps, B. abt. 1802, Washington County,) R1b1b2 6 23 30 12 6 6 67
0-9 Generations 10-19 Generations 20-29 Generations 30-39 Generations
- Infinite allele mutation model is used
- Average mutation rate varies: 0.0041 to 0.0041, from FTDNA derived rates
- Values on the diagonal indicate number of markers tested
- Probability is 60% that the TMRCA is no longer than indicated

 

 

 

 

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