Link to Phelps YDNA Project Home Phelps of Chowan and Tyrrell Counties, NC (with origins possibly in Md.)
Revised 10/06/2011
For ancestry questions contact coordinators Cathy (glroberts AT cox.net) or Ira (k4ymq AT yahoo.com). For YDNA questions contact Doug (dphelps61 AT alumni.wfu.edu
NEW 5/2010: Your administrator can view the genetic distances and TMRCA of any tested Phelps to any other. When the men of the "Walter Phelps" line ( a very general description of 5 tested men) with 67 markers is compared to the men of Tyrrell Co, NC with 67 tested markers, there is around a 35% probability of a common ancestor WITHIN 26 generations. The generations and probabilities vary. A separate page combining the YDNA information for both these lines is here
To view a more detailed genealogy of the Tyrrell Phelps link to this Phelps Genealogies web site
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Phelps who have origins in Chowan and Tyrrell Co, NC
- James Phelps/Felps (probable), son Moses b bef 1751 Chowan Co, NC # 166082 - William Phelps, b. c. 1773. NC? SC?, d c1827, Pulaski Co. GA, m Sophia Lee #43412 - Zadock Phelps b ca 1760 Tyrell Co,NC #71005 - Asa Phelps b 1810 Franklin Co, NC (Jeremiah the likely father) #77645 - Silas M. Phelps b 1814, TN #94034 - Micajah Phelps b.ca 1805 Washington Co, NC # 100136 - Jordan H. Phelps, B. abt. 1812, Washington County, NC #157512 - Bateman (Seth Phelps, b. bef 1755, d. 1823 Tyrrell Co. NC) # 170252 - William Phelps (Philps) b. about 1773 (Eng/NC/SC) - d. about 1828 (GA) m. Sophia Lee Kit 185712
Haplogroup comment: Kit 100136 (Micajah Phelps, 1805-1879) received his deep clade testing results which indicated R1b1b2a1b5 (short hand of R-L21). The other kits who match him well can expect to have the same haplogroup. |
Go to the
Chowan-Tyrrell Co. Phelps ancestors Google group forum
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Lineages displayed here were provided by individual ydna kit members, or their representatives, who are solely responsible for providing any ethical or copyright credits..
Click on the below subjects to view
"A working theory for the heritage of these Phelps families" by Cathy Roberts, Lineage Coordinator
Considerations for future testing of this line
Lineages displayed here were provided by individual ydna kit members, or their representatives, who are solely responsible for providing any ethical or copyright credits..
Of all the lineages shown below, the most "probable" oldest patriarch is James Phelps/Felps d.. bet 1770-1776 (will of 1768) Chowan Co, NC, listed as dying before most of the patriarchs were born.
The following four men have a unique 39 value in YDNA marker CYDa and may represent a major family branch.
1. William Phelps b c 1773 NC or SC , moved to GA, d c1827, Pulaski Co. GA, m Sophia Lee ( b. SC)
2. Arthur Phelps, b. 1808 SC, moved with parents to GA, m. Lucinda Evans 1828 Pulaski GA, moved to Winn Parish, LA 1858-9, d. 1878 at daughter's house at Vernon, Jackson Parish, LA
3. William Elijah Phelps b. 11/1/1828, Pulaski, GA, d. 2/23/1896 Mitchell Co, GA; m. Mary Jane Crosby 1857 in Mitchell Co, GA
4. King David Phelps b. 1874 Berrian Co, GA, d. 1966 Camilla, GA; m. Mary Elizabeth (Molly) West, residence Mitchell Co, GA
5. son
6. Descendant DNA Kit 43412, 37 markers Haplogroup R1b1b2
Notes: Arthur Phelps was born in SC but moved with his parents, William and Sophia Lee Phelps, to GA. They settled in Pulaksi County, GA. Arthur married in Pulaski County and most of his children were born there. He sold out his property which included farm land and Saw Mill and moved to Winn Parish, LA between 1858-9 as he appeared on the 1860 and 1870 LA census. He died at his dau. house in Jackson Parish LA in 1876. Burial site unkn. His wife died before him. Her burial site unkn also. Some of his children moved on to TX. William Elijah Phelps remained in GA as he was married, with children, and was farming. He roamed around a bit and finally settled in Mitchell Co. GA where he is buried along side his wife. He had 11 children ( I am guessing this one!..but it is with in 1-2 children correct!) William Elijah was in the Civil War. Most of his war experience was in GA and FL
1. Zadock Phelps b Tyrell Co, NC ca. 1760 Removed to Rutherford Co, TN by 1814, to Bond Co, IL by 1820, to Marion Co, IL by 1830 d. ???? IL, buried near Salem, Ill.
2. John Phelps
2. Frederick Phelps b. NC 1795, d. IL 1845, buried near Salem, Ill., m. Delilah Little
3.
Samuel
3. Wright
3. John
3. Tampy
3. James Pinckney Phelps (b. 1828 in Marion
County, IL, d. IL.
buried near
Salem, Ill.) m.
Elizabeth Anna Hawkins
4. Tilford Douglas Phelps (b. 1861
in Marion County (outside Salem) IL, d. LaBelle, TX, ca 1928) m. Sarah Catherine Crenshaw of Decatur,
IL
5.
Earl Tilford Phelps
b. Dec 20, 1905 in Hamshire, TX, d. October 17th, 1958 Beaumont, TX,
6.
Son
7. Grandson Kit 71005 37 markers Haplogroup R1b1b2
1. Silas M. Phelps b. May 31,1814 (possibly Rutherford, see submitter), TN , d. April 23,1875, Salem, Ill. m. Nancy Lane
2. Josiah Phelps b 1847, d after 1880 census
2. Iasiak Phelps b.1848 d.?
2. Mary Ann Phelps b.1852 d.1909 m. burried East Lawn Salem, IL m. W.L.Ardery .
2. William Smith Phelps b.Aug 15,1853 d.Dec 25,1886 buried East Lawn Salem, IL.
2. Josephine Phelps b.March 1,1856 m. Austin Hanes d. Feb 18,19? CA
2. Henerietta Phelps b.1858 m. Mr. Cook d. Feb.19,19? CA.
2. Edward (Edgar) Phelps b.Sept 19,1860 d. April 7,1879 buried East Lawn Salem IL.
2. James Madison Phelps, b. April 2,1849 ,d. May 12,1920, buried East Lawn Salem Il,. m. Elizabeth Martha Shelton
3. Silas Ardery Phelps b. Mar 22 1890 d. Dec 14,1950 (in CA) buried East Lawn, Salem IL. m.Faye Williams
| 4. Lyle Ardery Phelps b. 1912 d. 1973
3. Donald Claire Phelps b. Nov.7,1898 d.1966 buried East Lawn,Salem IL. m.Ruby Hensen
3. Gladys Faye Phelps b. Sept 15.1903 d.Mar,1989 m. Joseph Browning Davis
3. Lawrence Pearl Phelps , b. Jan.13,1895, d. Mar 2 1972, buried Salem Il.
4. Son
5. Grandson Kit 94034 37 markers, Haplogroup
R1b1b2
1. Seth Phelps b bef 1755 d. 1823 Tyrrell Co, NC.
2. Eby Phelps b 1780/1790 d. abt 1837 Tyrrell Co, NC.
3. Edmond Bateman b. 9/26/1811 Tyrrell Co, NC, d. 9/26/1870 Tyrrell Co, NC
4. Joseph Bateman b. 3/21/1845 Soundside, Tyrrell Co, NC. d. 2/11/1921 Tyrrell Co, NC
5. James Henry /Bateman b. 1/5/1880 Soundside, Tyrrell Co, NC. d. 1/5/1880 Columbia, Tyrrell Co, NC
6. Rodney Swain Bateman b. 2/12/1910 Columbia, Tyrrell Co, NC. d 4/4/2005 Columbia, Tyrrell Co, NC.
7. Son
8 . Son Kit 170252 67 markers Haplogroup R1b1b2A1b5
The following five men have a unique 40 value in YDNA marker CYDa and may represent a major family branch.
Most recent tested man 9/2010 - (Yellow indicates unsure at present)
1. William Phelps (Philps) b. about 1773 (Eng/NC/SC) - d. about 1828 (GA) m. Sophia Lee
2. William Phelps Jr. b. 1814 d. 5 Dec 1875 (TX) m. Christian Buchan 1834 GA
3. John Arthur Neal Phelps b. 14 Nov1849 (GA) d. 19 Feb 1888 (Caldwell, Burleson Co. TX) m. Nancy Keese 1874 (TX)
4. David Edgar Phelps b. 12 Feb 1883 (Burleson Co.,TX) - d. 14 Sep 1961 (Eureka, Humboldt Co., CA) m. Bertha Ida Ischy
| 5. Son
| 6. Grandson b. 31 Dec 1948 Kit 185712 (37 markers)
4. James
Madison Phelps b. 16 Jan 1884 (
New tested man 9/2010
1. James Phelps/Felps (Probable patriarch) b. unknown; d. bet 1770-1776 (will of 1768) Chowan Co, NC m. Mary (Yellow indicates Probable).
2. Thomas Phelps
2 . Aaron Phelps b. Chowan Co, NC resident in Dobbs Co, NC 1769
2. William Phelps b. Chowan Co, NC resident in Dobbs Co, NC 1766 & 1769
2. Abraham Phelps
2. Noah Phelps
2. Moses Phelps b. bef 1751 Chowan Co, NC; d. aft 1794 unknown location m. Miriam
3. James Stewart Phelps b. bef. 1775 OR 1770 NC; in Edgefield Co, SC and Lowndes CO, Ala. D. abt 1851, age 76 Yellow Shank, Butler Co, Alabama;
| 4. James Phelps b. 1810 Edgefeld Co, SC
| 4. Arden Joseph Phelps b. 1810 Edgefield Co, SC D. abt 1846 Butler Co, SC.
| 4. George Washington Terrell Phelps b. 1811 Edgefield County, South Carolina.
| 4. John Phelps. b. abt 1820 SC d. 1895 New London, Union Co, SC
| 4. Lorenzo Dow Phelps b. 1823 Edgefield Co. SC. ; d. 1892 Butler Co, Ala
| 4. Edward Phelps b.1825 Lowndes Co, Al
3. Four more children
3. Enoch S. Phelps b. abt 1774 NC resident Edgefield Co, SC; d. abt 1848 in Newton Co, MIssissippi
4. Jonah Josiah Phelps b. 1797. (Yellow indicates doubt)_
4. ? Phelps b. 1800 in Edgefield County, South Carolina4
4. Rev Enoch Spruill Sylvester Phelps.
4 Phelps b. 1807 in Edgefield County, South Carolina.4
4. . John Long Phelps.
4 ? Phelps b. 1809/10 in Edgefield County, South Carolina.4
4. ? Phelps b. 1813 in Edgefield County, South Carolina.5
4. Feruba Huldah Phelps.
4. Isiah Marshall Phelps.
4. James Stewart Phelps.
4. (Rev) Joseph Downing Phelps b. 1 Jan 1814, Edgefield, SC, d. 10 Dec 1889, Tyler Co., TX
5. Downing S. Phelps b. 10 Dec 1867, Tyler Co., TX, d. 17 Apr 1918, in LA
6. Joseph Daniel Phelps b. 16 Aug 1894, Tyler Co., TX
Descendant Kit 166082
1. Jeremiah (Jerry) Phelps b. probably 1774, probably Tyrrell Co, NC d. aft 1850. Removed to Washington Co. by 1820 & Franklin Co, NC by 1840 (Comment: to ponder:: Could this Jeremiah be one of the Jeremiahs in the Cuthbert Phelps line?)
2. Asa (B) Phelps bet 1808 &1810 Franklin Co, NC. d. Abt 1866. Last seen in Franklin Co, NC 1850. m. Tabitha Young
| 3. Smith Patrick Phelps b. 3/8/1851 Franklin Co, NC. d. 7/12/1926 Wake Co, NC. m. Martha Darien Wright
| 4. Leonard Eugene Phelps b 10/10/1888 Johnston Co, NC , d. 3/16/1965 Hoke Co, NC m Stella B Henderson
| 5. Son Kit 77645 Haplogroup R1b1b2 This ancestry provided by kit 77645 and B. Freeman
2. Kearny/Carney Phelps
b 1814
m. Elizabeth Young, Franklin Co, NC 1838
2. Third son b 1815-1819
2. Fourth son b. 1816-1820
2. Cassman Phelps (possibliy) b. 1820-1824
2. Nathaniel Phelps b c 1825 m. Nancy Wood 1846
1. Henry Phelps, B. abt 1780, most likely Tyrrell Cty, NC. D. before August 1835, Washington Cty, NC
2. Jordan H. Phelps, B. abt. 1812, Washington County, NC D. before 25 July 1878, Washington Cty, NC., m. Ann Britania Ambrose
3. Hezekiah Henderson Phelps. B. abt 1844 Washington Cy, NC. D. Washington Cty, NC., m Malissa Spruil
4. Harrison Libenas Phelps, B. 1870, Washington Cty, NC. D. 4 April 1933, Washington Cty, NC., m. Nancy Winifred Clifton
5. Zephaniah Henderson Phelps, B. 1891, Washington Cty, NC. D. 1964 Chowan Cty, NC.
6. Son Kit 157512 67 markers Haplogroup R1b1b2 -
A division of the property of Henry Phelps, deceased, ordered by the court July 1835, Washington County. Tenants in Common and Heirs at law who received a portion were: Jordan Henderson Phelps, Nehemiah H. Phelps, Levi N. Phelps, Joseph W. Phelps, Priscilla Phelps, Henry Phelps, Jacob W., Eliza and Charles T. Phelps
1. Micajah Phelps b.ca 1805 Washington County, NC. d.1879 Washington County, NC. m. Eveline/Evelina.
2. Bailey Phelps
2. Amariah Phelps
2. John Phelps, b. ca 1830 Washington County, NC. d. bef 9/18/1878 (will date). m. likely Elizabeth
3. John Caleb Phelps/JC Phelps/John C. Phelps b. 12/16/1860, Washington County, NC. d. 4/13/1934, Washington Co., NC. m. Frances Ann Brickhouse
4. James Warren Phelps
4. Joseph E. Phelps
4. Seaton Monroe Phelps
4. Dennis Harrison Phelps
4. Ernest Caleb Phelps.
4. Milton Claude Phelps, b. Feb 25, 1905 in Washington County, NC. d. May 13, 1980, Cherry, Washington County, NC. m. Alethia Picolia Allen
5. Son Kit 100136 67 markers Haplogroup
R1b1b2a1b5
"A working theory for the heritage of these Phelps families" by Cathy Roberts, Lineage Coordinator
2009 or early 2010
One of the working theories regarding the heritage of the Phelps families of Tyrrell and Washington Counties, NC is that they are all descended from Cuthbert Phelps and his wife, Frances (last name unknown), with Cuthbert being a son of Cuthbert and Mary Phelps, who first migrated into Maryland in 1654, along with sons Cuthbert and Darby (An alternate theory is that the Cuthbert who migrated to North Carolina was the same man who immigrated to Maryland, with Mary being his first wife and Frances his second wife. To date, there are not any facts to support or disprove either theory). While none of our lineages can yet connect back to Cuthbert Phelps, there are some valid reasons to believe that he is the progenitor for the majority, if not all, of the Phelps lines currently in, or from, those two counties.
Prior to moving to North Carolina, Cuthbert Phelps. and his family lived in Talbot County, Maryland. Cuthbert and Frances sold all of their lands (Cudlington, Cudlington's Addition, and Cudlington's Increase) to Thomas Impey, also of Talbot County, Maryland. The date of this sale was April 27, 1682.
In September of 1689, a letter-of-attorney was produced at the court in Talbot County, naming Archibald Greer of Albemarle County, NC as the 'true and lawful Attorney of Cuthbart Phelps." In January 1694/95, Cuthbert and Frances sold land in Albemarle County to Roger Snell, indicating that Cuthbert had been there long enough to have obtained the land.
On February 26, 1695/96, Cuthbert Phelps claimed 1,050 acres of land by right of importation into North Carolina of himself, his wife Frances, children Darby, Edward, Bartholomew, Priscilla, and Cuthbert, Jr., as well as others (21 people total). Early land records place Cuthbert and his family on the south side of the Albemarle Sound, at that time in what was Perquimans Precinct of Albemarle County. Later this same area was Chowan Precinct, and the area east of the Scuppernong River was known as Pasquotank Precinct. By 1729, the whole area became Tyrrell County (with Washington County being fully formed from Tyrrell County in 1799, and then more land annexed in 1801).
By 1704, Cuthbert Phelps was deceased. On July 11, 1704, the court of Perquimans Precinct, Albemarle County granted the administration of his estate to his widow, Frances Phelps. Also in 1704, another Phelps appears in that area, a man named Seth Phelps. It is not generally believed that Seth was an unnamed son of Cuthbert, but there is some circumstantial evidence to show that Seth Phelps was related in some way to Cuthbert and his sons. The first being that Seth named one of his sons Darby, which was not only the name of one of Cuthbert's sons, but also the name of Cuthbert's brother. So far, researchers have not yet determined what became of the older Darby Phelps, so it's possible that Seth is his son or grandson - it's also possible that Seth is a grandson of Cuthbert's.
And so, as of 1704, there were 5 males with the surname of Phelps, all living in the same geographical area on the south side of Albemarle Sound. Four of them were Cuthbert's sons, Darby, Edward, Bartholomew and Cuthbert, and the fifth one was Seth Phelps. This gives us the possibilities that all of the current day Phelps families of, or from that area, are descended from more than one of these men.
In their article, "The Cuthbert Phelps Family Of Early Maryland And North Carolina" by Thomas Warren Crowder and Phyllis Hoggatt Crowder, the authors attempted to trace forward from Cuthbert's sons. They were able to find evidence that two of the sons had married and had sons - Edward and Cuthbert. They could not find anything showing that Bartholomew and Darby had fathered sons. They also found that Seth Phelps had two sons. Of the two who had sons, there is more information about the children of Cuthbert than there is of Edward's descendants.
As a quick overview, Edward had at least one son, also named Edward. This younger Edward had apparently divested himself of his land by 1742, and it is not yet known what became of him. Nor is it known if he had any siblings.
Cuthbert Phelps married Susannah Spruill, a daughter of Dr. Godfrey Spruill, and they had several children. From the records reviewed by Thomas and Phyllis Crowder, they determined that the following were sons of Cuthbert and Susannah Spruill Phelps: Edward, James, Godfrey, Joshua, and probably John and Joseph Phelps. The Crowder's found evidence of sons for each of those men except for Joseph Phelps.
Seth Phelps had two sons, Darby and George. Court records indicate that Darby had at least two daughters, as they were apparently minors at the time of his death in 1754. George Phelps died in 1745, and later records seem to indicate that he had at least one son, Seth Phelps. As mentioned in the article:
"Recorded in the Tyrrell Co., processioners' book for 1747/8 is: 'Seth Phelps, son of George deceast,' processioned for 150 acres, land on the 'east side of Scopperlong River to Clay's Creek."
So, what does all of that mean for those of us who can trace our Phelps ancestors back to the Tyrrell County area of North Carolina? For some of us, it means that we might find our Most Recent Common Ancestor at the beginning of the 1700s, and that Cuthbert and Frances Phelps might be the MRCAs for us. For others of us, our MRCA is much closer in time. Only by finding more Phelps descendants will we get a more definite picture of just who and when, we'll find our MRCA.
If you look at one of your 'cousins' at the Phelps Surname Project, and see that your MRCA is over 7 generations ago, then you might want to look at the early Phelps inhabitants of the region for that MRCA. This is where a good and solid paper trail will be a vital partner to the YDNA testing. I know that many of us have hit brick walls with our research, and right now have only the YDNA results to work with, but hopefully the research done by the Crowder's can help some of us find other avenues of research and assist us in taking our paper trails even further back in time than we've been able to take them so far.
A short lineage for Seth Phelps has been added to the Phelps Genealogies web page
http://genealogies.phelpsdna.com/sethphels.htm Also, a longer lineage for Cuthbert and Frances Phelps, has been added to the lineage for Cuthbert Phelps, showing daughters as well as sons. http://genealogies.phelpsdna.com/cuthbert.htm This fuller lineage is a combination of the work done by Thomas and Phyllis Crowder and myself.Sources for the names of the descendants of Cuthbert and Mary Phelps can be found in the Crowder's article. The article was published in "The Genealogist", Volume 23, No. 1, Spring 2009, Picton Press. "The Genealogist" is published for The American Society of Genealogist, and copies of "The Genealogist" can be purchased directly from The American Society of Genealogists:
http://www.fasg.org/TheGenealogist.html
YDNA Tables - revised 9/20/2010
The first row of the first table indicates the mutations of each kit to the modal values. Modal means the most frequently observed value and is often the value of the common ancestor. The calculated modal can be misleading with a small sample, but tentatively those values are most likely what may have been the y-dna of the common ancestor. Tables were create using a tool found at this site which approximates the analysis at FTDNA.
Scroll to the right to see all the marker values..........................>>>
FTDNA's comment: "It is obvious from our observation of 10's of 1000's of samples that some markers change or mutate at a faster rate than others. Therefore not all markers should be treated the same for evaluation purposes. The markers in red below have shown a faster mutation rate then the average, and therefore these markers are very helpful at splitting lineages into sub sets, or branches, within your family tree." FTDNA also says that when a red fast moving marker mutation alone implies a wrong branch, strong consideration or preference should be given to proven paper trails.. Of importance to these lines, they also add that where there are no merging paper trails but fast moving markers of tested men do match, it may be deduced that the matching men may be from the same branch.
| ID | D Y S 3 9 3 |
D Y S 3 9 0 |
D Y S 1 9 / 3 9 4 |
D Y S 3 9 1 |
D Y S 3 8 5 a |
D Y S 3 8 5 b |
D Y S 4 2 6 |
D Y S 3 8 8 |
D Y S 4 3 9 |
D Y S 3 8 9 - 1 |
D Y S 3 9 2 |
D Y S 3 8 9 - 2 |
D Y S 4 5 8 |
D Y S 4 5 9 a |
D Y S 4 5 9 b |
D Y S 4 5 5 |
D Y S 4 5 4 |
D Y S 4 4 7 |
D Y S 4 3 7 |
D Y S 4 4 8 |
D Y S 4 4 9 |
D Y S 4 6 4 a |
D Y S 4 6 4 b |
D Y S 4 6 4 c |
D Y S 4 6 4 d |
D Y S 4 6 4 e |
D Y S 4 6 4 f |
D Y S 4 6 4 g |
D Y S 4 6 0 |
G A T A H 4 |
Y C A I I a |
Y C A I I b |
D Y S 4 5 6 |
D Y S 6 0 7 |
D Y S 5 7 6 |
D Y S 5 7 0 |
C D Y a |
C D Y b |
D Y S 4 4 2 |
D Y S 4 3 8 |
D Y S 5 3 1 |
D Y S 5 7 8 |
D Y S 3 9 5 S 1 a |
D Y S 3 9 5 S 1 b |
D Y S 5 9 0 |
D Y S 5 3 7 |
D Y S 6 4 1 |
D Y S 4 7 2 |
D Y S 4 0 6 S 1 |
D Y S 5 1 1 |
D Y S 4 2 5 |
D Y S 4 1 3 a |
D Y S 4 1 3 b |
D Y S 5 5 7 |
D Y S 5 9 4 |
D Y S 4 3 6 |
D Y S 4 9 0 |
D Y S 5 3 4 |
D Y S 4 5 0 |
D Y S 4 4 4 |
D Y S 4 8 1 |
D Y S 5 2 0 |
D Y S 4 4 6 |
D Y S 6 1 7 |
D Y S 5 6 8 |
D Y S 4 8 7 |
D Y S 5 7 2 |
D Y S 6 4 0 |
D Y S 4 9 2 |
D Y S 5 6 5 |
|||||
| modal | 13 | 23 | 14 | 11 | 11 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 13 | 30 | 16 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 25 | 15 | 19 | 29 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 17 | 11 | 11 | 19 | 23 | 16 | 15 | 18 | 17 | 40 | 40 | 11 | 12 | 11 | 9 | 15 | 16 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 12 | 23 | 23 | 17 | 10 | 12 | 12 | 15 | 8 | 12 | 22 | 19 | 14 | 12 | 11 | 13 | 11 | 11 | 12 | 12 | ||||||||
| 170252 Bateman(Seth Phelps, b. bef 1755, d. 1823 Tyrrell Co. NC) R1b1b2a1b5 | 13 | 23 | 14 | 11 | 11 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 13 | 15 | 13 | 31 | 16 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 25 | 15 | 19 | 29 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 17 | 11 | 11 | 19 | 23 | 16 | 15 | 19 | 17 | 39 | 40 | 11 | 12 | 11 | 9 | 15 | 16 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 12 | 23 | 23 | 17 | 10 | 12 | 12 | 15 | 8 | 12 | 22 | 19 | 14 | 12 | 11 | 13 | 11 | 11 | 12 | 12 | ||||||||
| 43412 (William Phelps, b. c. 1773. NC? SC?, d c1827, Pu) R1b1b2 | 13 | 23 | 14 | 11 | 11 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 13 | 30 | 16 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 25 | 15 | 19 | 29 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 17 | 11 | 11 | 19 | 23 | 16 | 15 | 18 | 17 | 39 | 40 | 11 | 12 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 71005 (James Pinckney Phelps, b. 1828 Marion Co., IL) R1b1b2 | 13 | 23 | 14 | 11 | 11 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 13 | 30 | 16 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 25 | 15 | 19 | 29 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 17 | 11 | 11 | 19 | 23 | 16 | 15 | 18 | 17 | 39 | 40 | 11 | 12 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 94034 (Silas M. Phelps b. May 31,1814 TN ,d. April 23,187) R1b1b2 | 13 | 23 | 14 | 11 | 11 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 13 | 30 | 16 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 25 | 15 | 19 | 29 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 17 | 11 | 11 | 19 | 23 | 16 | 15 | 18 | 17 | 39 | 40 | 11 | 12 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 77645 (Asa Phelps, b 1810, Franklin Co., NC) R1b1b2 | 13 | 23 | 14 | 11 | 11 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 13 | 30 | 16 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 25 | 15 | 19 | 29 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 17 | 11 | 11 | 19 | 23 | 16 | 15 | 18 | 17 | 40 | 40 | 11 | 12 | 11 | 9 | 15 | 16 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 12 | 23 | 23 | 17 | 10 | 12 | 12 | 15 | 8 | 12 | 22 | 19 | 14 | 12 | 11 | 13 | 11 | 11 | 12 | 12 | ||||||||
| 157512 R (Jordan H. Phelps, B. abt. 1802, Washington County,) R1b1b2 | 13 | 23 | 14 | 11 | 11 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 14 | 13 | 30 | 16 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 26 | 15 | 19 | 29 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 17 | 11 | 11 | 19 | 23 | 16 | 15 | 18 | 17 | 40 | 40 | 11 | 12 | 11 | 9 | 15 | 16 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 12 | 23 | 23 | 17 | 10 | 12 | 12 | 15 | 8 | 12 | 22 | 19 | 14 | 12 | 11 | 13 | 11 | 11 | 12 | 12 | ||||||||
| 100136 (Micajah Phelps, 1805-1879) R1b1b2a1b5 | 13 | 23 | 14 | 11 | 11 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 13 | 30 | 16 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 25 | 15 | 19 | 29 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 17 | 11 | 11 | 19 | 23 | 16 | 15 | 18 | 17 | 40 | 40 | 11 | 12 | 11 | 9 | 15 | 16 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 12 | 23 | 23 | 17 | 10 | 12 | 12 | 15 | 8 | 12 | 22 | 19 | 14 | 12 | 11 | 13 | 11 | 11 | 12 | 12 | ||||||||
| 166082 (James Phelps/Felps (probable), son Moses b bef 175) R1b1b2 | 13 | 23 | 14 | 11 | 11 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 13 | 30 | 16 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 25 | 15 | 19 | 29 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 17 | 11 | 11 | 19 | 23 | 16 | 15 | 18 | 17 | 40 | 40 | 11 | 12 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 185712 William Phelps (Philps) b. about 1773 (Eng) R1b1b2 | 13 | 23 | 14 | 11 | 11 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 13 | 30 | 16 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 25 | 15 | 19 | 29 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 17 | 11 | 11 | 19 | 23 | 16 | 15 | 18 | 17 | 40 | 41 | 11 | 12 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Genetic Distances (The number of differences, or mutations, between two sets of results. A genetic distance of zero means there are no differences in the results being compared against one another. ie an exact match)
The analyses presented here uses a tool which simulates FTDNA's analysis. Similar data in these tables can be seen at your logon at FTDNA. Below is a table comparing every member of this line to every other line to show the genetic distances. Note the number of tested markers for each kit in the diagonals (12,25,37, 64). As you compare one kit to another, note the fewest number of markers tested of the two men and click on the appropriate link "FTDNA's intrepreting genetic distance" to understand the relatedness. A similar genetic distance is provided to each person logging in to FTDNA and asking for YDNA matches;
| Genetic Distance | |||||||||||
| ID | m o d a l |
1 7 0 2 5 2 |
4 3 4 1 2 |
7 1 0 0 5 |
9 4 0 3 4 |
7 7 6 4 5 |
1 5 7 5 1 2 |
1 0 0 1 3 6 |
1 6 6 0 8 2 |
1 8 5 7 1 2 |
|
| modal | 67 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | |
| 170252 Bateman(Seth Phelps, b. bef 1755, d. 1823 Tyrrell Co. NC) R1b1b2a1b5 | 3 | 67 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 4 | |
| 43412 (William Phelps, b. c. 1773. NC? SC?, d c1827, Pu) R1b1b2 | 1 | 2 | 37 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 2 | |
| 71005 (James Pinckney Phelps, b. 1828 Marion Co., IL) R1b1b2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 37 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 2 | |
| 94034 (Silas M. Phelps b. May 31,1814 TN ,d. April 23,187) R1b1b2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 37 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 2 | |
| 77645 (Asa Phelps, b 1810, Franklin Co., NC) R1b1b2 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 67 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | |
| 157512 R (Jordan H. Phelps, B. abt. 1802, Washington County,) R1b1b2 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 67 | 2 | 2 | 3 | |
| 100136 (Micajah Phelps, 1805-1879) R1b1b2a1b5 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 67 | 0 | 1 | |
| 166082 (James Phelps/Felps (probable), son Moses b bef 175) R1b1b2 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 37 | 1 | |
| 185712 William Phelps (Philps) b. about 1773 (Eng) R1b1b2 | 1 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 37 | |
| - Hybrid mutation model is used - Values on the diagonal indicate number of markers tested |
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Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (in generations) Probability is 90% that the TMRCA is no longer than indicated
The table below is to help understand the common ancestor of the lines. The table shows the number of generations within which one would expect to have a common ancestor with every other kit. - at a 90% probability. As you compare one kit to another, note the fewest number of markers tested of the two men (12, 25, 37, 64) in the white box on the diagonal. Fewer tested markers will lengthen the expected years.) Similar information, expressed differently, is provided to each person logging in to FTDNA and asking for YDNA matches; for each match is a link to a FTDNATip report which shows several choices of generations within which a common ancestor is expected with a related probabilities.
In the table below, most important is the row/column called "Modal". The modal shows the ydna values of a theoretical common ancestor using the values most often seen. The science says that theoretical member would be what the common ancestor to all of the members would have. It could be the father of Felps or his grandfather or whatever. It would point to the common ancestor of all three major lines. CAUTION: Kits having more markers than the others influences the modal, causing them to be statistically nearer to the modal, which could be misleading.
| Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (Generations) | |||||||||||||||
| ID | m o d a l |
1 7 0 2 5 2 |
4 3 4 1 2 |
7 1 0 0 5 |
9 4 0 3 4 |
7 7 6 4 5 |
1 5 7 5 1 2 |
1 0 0 1 3 6 |
1 6 6 0 8 2 |
1 8 5 7 1 2 |
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| modal | 67 | 13 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 4 | 10 | 4 | 6 | 10 | |||||
| 170252 Bateman(Seth Phelps, b. bef 1755, d. 1823 Tyrrell Co. NC) R1b1b2a1b5 | 13 | 67 | 14 | 14 | 14 | 13 | 18 | 13 | 17 | 21 | |||||
| 43412 (William Phelps, b. c. 1773. NC? SC?, d c1827, Pu) R1b1b2 | 10 | 14 | 37 | 6 | 6 | 10 | 17 | 10 | 10 | 14 | |||||
| 71005 (James Pinckney Phelps, b. 1828 Marion Co., IL) R1b1b2 | 10 | 14 | 6 | 37 | 6 | 10 | 17 | 10 | 10 | 14 | |||||
| 94034 (Silas M. Phelps b. May 31,1814 TN ,d. April 23,187) R1b1b2 | 10 | 14 | 6 | 6 | 37 | 10 | 17 | 10 | 10 | 14 | |||||
| 77645 (Asa Phelps, b 1810, Franklin Co., NC) R1b1b2 | 4 | 13 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 67 | 10 | 4 | 6 | 10 | |||||
| 157512 R (Jordan H. Phelps, B. abt. 1802, Washington County,) R1b1b2 | 10 | 18 | 17 | 17 | 17 | 10 | 67 | 10 | 14 | 17 | |||||
| 100136 (Micajah Phelps, 1805-1879) R1b1b2a1b5 | 4 | 13 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 4 | 10 | 67 | 6 | 10 | |||||
| 166082 (James Phelps/Felps (probable), son Moses b bef 175) R1b1b2 | 6 | 17 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 6 | 14 | 6 | 37 | 10 | |||||
| 185712 William Phelps (Philps) b. about 1773 (Eng) R1b1b2 | 10 | 21 | 14 | 14 | 14 | 10 | 17 | 10 | 10 | 37 | |||||
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| - Infinite allele mutation model is used - Average mutation rate varies: 0.0041 to 0.0054, from FTDNA derived rates - Values on the diagonal indicate number of markers tested - Probability is 90% that the TMRCA is no longer than indicated |
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Revised 9/14/2010 - (Check back occasionally for changes)
ALL PROBABILITIES BELOW WERE COMPUTED AT A HIGH 90% PROBABILITY.
Based on paper trails and the common ancestor probabilities of these kits it is likely that the common ancestor lived in eastern NC eiteher in Chowan or Tyrrell counties by the 1700s. Several kits have 67 markers tested, which can be very helpful confirming the relatedness of lineages seen here. The kit owners have confirmed their research using primary sources in most cases. Additional research is being done, especially for the lineage data highlighted in yellow.
Each kit owner in this group should log on to FTDNA and carefully study their matching Y-DNA hits. (In addition review the tables below.) At their FTDNA record they should ask for matches, looking for matches using the largest number of markers, To the right of the match, click the FTDNAtip "report" which is a blue and red icon . For each FTDNATip report), study the results. For this line, you most likely should enter a new value where it reads "did not share a common ancestor in the last generation(s). For example, if you know for certain that there was no common ancestor in the last 3 generations, enter a 3.
Looking at the YDNA tables, there is a possibility that some (or all?) )of the tested men descended from Cutberth Phelps, originally from Maryland, but we have no DNA samples known to be from the Cutberth line. For a detailed discussion of this theory see the Cuthbert theory on this page.
Unfortunately we have no merging paper trails to help link to a common ancestor for any of these men, so all our predictions are an educated speculations. Therefore if we place emphasis on the ydna results we can offer some observations. It appears we have a random sample of men who are not known to be related. (Too many from one branch could skew the results.) However the sampling number is still too few to allow us to feel confident. Perhaps 20 or so would give more reliable results. In addition to the tables above I made use of the Phylogenetic Network Software at www.Fluxus-Engineering.com (not redone for latest men)
1. Using the 40 and 39 marker values as a major branch guide and the table showing TMRCA (in generations) between the tested men, we may be able to define how likely the common ancestors were previous to the birth dates of the oldest Phelps in each lineage provided. This approach should be especially helpful since most (all?) of those who supplied the lineages are confident there could be no common ancestor between the men during the lineages provided, yet the TMRCA values seem to indicate otherwise in some cases where the TMRCA is so recent at 90% probability. . A caution of course is to note that some ancestors are highlighted in yellow indicating doubt.
2. The common ancestor of all the men should have the ydna of the "modal" YDNA values (the values seen most often). The important separation of the two major branches from the common ancestor may be indicated by the 39 vs. 40 in CDYa. Four of those men have a value of 39; four have 40. So either 39 or 40 could be the value of that common ancestor to them all - and with more tested men the value may become evident.
3. The "39" branch (CDYa) is found only in men 43412, 71005, 94034 and 17025 and may represent a major branch. Three of those men, 43412, 71005, and 94034 have perfectly matching ydna at 37 markers and their common ancestor is said to likely be within 6 generations (90% probability) . An illustration might be:
This branches' common ancestor with the mutation CDYa=39 at some point- -------> 43412,71005, 94064
4. The fourth "39" man, 170152, has 2 mutations, DYS389-1 (a slow mutating markers), and DYS576 fast mutating marker). ( DYS 389-2's apparent mutation can be ignored (see this from ftdna), His common ancestor is said to be within 14 generations (90% probability) of the other three 39's... but interestingly only 13 generations from the entire line's common ancestor. This conceivably could represent a branch from the other three "39's" in the 1700s, or a branch from the entire line's common ancestor. Important to note is the NPE indicated in this kit's lineage.
5. The "40" branch (CDYa) is found in four men, 166082, 100136, 77654 and 157512 and may represent a major branch. 100136 and 77645 match perfectly at 67 markers with their common ancestor within 4 (!!) generations (at 90% probability). The third "40" man, 157512, also with 67 markers, has two more mutations, one fast mutating marker and one slow, with a common ancestor to the other two within 10 generations. This could represent a branch from the other two in the 1700s, or from an earlier common ancestor. The fourth man, 166082, Chowan Co origins, with 25 markers, matches perfectly with the other two 40's, showing a common ancestor with them within 6 generations (at 90% probability)
An illustration might be:
This branches' common ancestor with the mutation CDYA=40 at some point---------------->100136 & 77645 & 166082
----------> mutations D439 and D447 at some point---------------> 157512
6. Most important.... Considering the existing genealogical research that James Phelps/Felps d. bet 1770-1776 (will of 1768) Chowan Co, NC, is the probable oldest patriarch, we might deduce that kit 166082 - with a CDYa value of 40 and other branches also with a 40 - represents the value of James himself and that the 40 mutation was of a major branch descended from him.
Haplogroup comment: Kit 100136 (Micajah Phelps, 1805-1879) received his deep clade testing results which indicated R1b1b2a1b5 (short hand of R-L21). The other kits who match him well can expect to have the same haplogroup.
Considerations for future testing of this line
This analysis illustrates the most likely path of relationships using the current limited testing. Due to that and a lack of merging paper trails, the paths may well change with more information. To narrow the search for a common ancestor to ALL these lines, more random tests are needed from those not known to be related to those already tested
Note note that without paper trail triangulations using tested men, it is conceivable that there could be errors in the paper trails, Common ancestors may well be missing. To fill out the missing links, more tests are needed from those who are known to be related to those already tested.
Link to Phelps YDNA Project Home